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A Conversation
with Ogwi'low'gwa Kim Recalma-Clutesi
On Oct 21st, 2022, Qualicum and Kwakwkwakw matriarch and knowledge holder, Ogwi'low'gwa Kim Recalma-Clutesi came to the Xwe’etay community center to answer questions about Indigenous land use, history, current social-political contexts and so much more. About 50 islanders attended and then we all joined together afterwards to share a meal.
This transcribed version of the question and answers have been consolidated and edited slightly from the longer discussion for clarity and brevity. Visit here to hear the presentation in its entirety.
Q.
How were traditional territories decided on in the distant past, and in more recent, colonial times? What does it mean to say Xwe’etay is in the traditional territory of a particular Nation?
A.
There are cultural groupings in British Columbia. For example, on Vancouver Island there are three distinct cultural groupings that are akin to comparing French, German, and English. Cultural groupings are not homogenous. Within cultural groupings there are different tribes, and some tribes had different clans within them. Everyone across the groupings shared technologies to help gather food and live abundantly in harsh climates. However, each cultural grouping, Nation, and clan has their own origin story. Some clans had their origin stories from the time of the flood. The Creator would have told them this is where you will live, this is what you will do, and each had different instructions.
People were semi-sedentary and would travel to different places to harvest, but it was very structured. People would return to the same areas to harvest specific resources. It was the highest law-breaking offence to wander onto someone else’s territory and gather resources. People married very carefully, so that they could have access to resources.
On Xwe’etay, it was the same. There was no federal government that laid out traditional territories or jurisdictions; the Creator did that. But this was disrupted about 200 years ago because of disease, and deliberately disrupted so that colonizers could extract resources from the land. In some cases, whole villages were wiped out. So, some of the knowledge has been lost about the origin stories all along the coast because of this. Then, the Government of Canada set up Indian reserves in BC, and within ten years the residential school system was set up. Within that era, the entire system of potlatching and feasting was outlawed. During the 1800s, up to 80% of the population was lost, and up to 95% of the land was stolen. People were harmed and removed from their traditional lands – the lands given to them by the Creator. Children were taken away to residential school to forget that living memory, and the culture was outlawed until 1951. Lots of the knowledge was lost, but lots of it still remains.
Traditional territory is spoken of often now, and some of that has to do with being orderly for the treaty system, and some of that has to do with making the treaty process difficult. The treaty process doesn’t let people to live on their traditional lands (they would need to buy it back). When we talk about traditional territories now, it is based on the treaty system, which is different from how land used to be managed. The treaty system relies on negotiating with the Canadian government for access to land. BC is the only part of the country that resisted having treaties; it’s probably the only part of the colonial world that did not settle a treaty before colonizers settled themselves.
Q.
There’s a lot of talk of “reconciliation,” but limited action. What are some concrete steps we can do on Xwe’etay to become better allies with our First Nations neighbours?
A.
First, it’s not possible for Indigenous people to come and take the land back; it’s not legal. However, it’s so important that people are agreeing to let Indigenous people have a look at the land, allowing your land to inform the history that has been forgotten and lost because of that terrible time. It’s a huge step that amounts to what non-Indigenous people call reconciliation. It’s huge.
What you’re doing right now is an example of an unselfish and gracious way to allow your land to be investigated so that history can be brought to life again. I don’t know if it can be better than that. It is truly amazing. Doing this is also beneficial for landowners because you get the certainty about what is on your land, and you get the certainty of knowing that you’re educating yourself, building partnerships, and garnered respect. You get the certainty that you’ve taken a great leap into reconciliation.
The more you can do to understand, to demystify the history, the better. You can also watch APTN.
Q.
One of the hardest things for outsiders working with First Nations communities is to know who to talk to or take advice from. In particular, with respect to traditional leaders versus elected councils. Could you explain for us the difference between the leadership in these two systems and why it matters to understand this?
A.
Elected Chiefs and council only have jurisdiction on reserve land. They also have limited capacity and resources, and an immense amount of responsibility. The reserves are very small, almost 100 times smaller than the reserves on the prairies because Indigenous communities were supposed to have unlimited access to marine resources (though this never happened). Although the reserves are small, the elected Chiefs and Council must provide all of the services here and manage the needs, resources, and economic sustainability of the Nation.
Hereditary leaders, however, have the knowledge of the outlying traditional lands, but they don’t always have jurisdiction. There’s a dance between the two, and you should always ask to speak with both the elected Chief and Council and the hereditary leadership. Always talk with more than one person to gain a full understanding of any situation.
Q.
What are your thoughts on Indigenous identity and blood quantum? Relatedly, we’re hearing a lot about people who claim Indigenous backgrounds for a range of reasons. In other words, what does it mean to be Indigenous?
A.
The quantum thing is racist. It’s left over from the colonial time where from the 1800s until 10 years ago, the federal government actively enforced rules surrounding status. For example, women who married non-status men would have their status removed, whereas non-status women who married status men would gain status. Additionally, people whose mother and grandmother gained status through marriage would not be eligible for status themselves. However, that’s not how people live; people live inclusively. It’s less about quantum and more about lineage and where you come from. Blood quantum was never in the vocabulary. Rather, your community identifies you. You cannot identify yourself and claim Indigeneity. It must come from the knowledge holders – they identify your Indigeneity. When you inherit a name, you have a lot of work to do to keep that name good, so it’s best to have an advisory team and have knowledge holders to help.
Q.
Can you speak to the importance of the intangible Indigenous heritage?
A.
Literally translated, songs and dances and history in the potlatch world are akin to having the book of genesis choreographed. Every contact that the ancestors had with the spirit world is choreographed into song and dance and that’s your tangible wealth. Your history and things attached to it are your tangible wealth; it is what you work towards achieving. Wealth has to do with history and how you celebrate it. Marriage is done carefully to attain these things.
Q.
What is the significance of the 94 calls to action brought forth by the Truth and Reconciliation Commission? And what’s the importance of making sure they’re completed?
A.
There have been many commissions called and they always end up sitting on shelves. This is the first one that has specific calls to action. The box was open to talk about that incredible body of pain and hurt about the residential schools. The calls to action are a blueprint to try to get this right. Calls to action are necessary to fix this. Everybody’s heart and soul went into this. Some of it is about education. Murray Sinclair spoke about how everyone embraced the memorialization day of September 11th, but we haven’t embraced September 30th in that same way yet. The 94 Calls to Action can help us do that kind of shift. It’s a seismic shift. We need to have a blueprint forward, and a part of that is about respecting who was here before and doing that in a safe way. This is reconciliation.
See another talk by Murray Sinclair on this topic here.
Q.
What is your vision of an honored and protected Indigenous cultural heritage site on private land? What would that look like on an everyday level to the folks who own and live on that property?
A.
Put a little food on the fire, recognize that others were there before you. Pay attention to your land. There are many things to do that mimics and honours the ancestors. Try not to be overly active in the places where the ancestors lay – you wouldn’t do things on your families’ grave. It can be difficult because you’re not bound by law, but you are bound by ethics and a good heart. Try not to damage more. Say good things when you walk by those sites, by fish camps, or clam gardens, and ancestors. Thank them for their work. Just have that gratitude and say things from the heart and be humble.
Q.
What do we do about names? For example, people often ask what was the Coast Salish name of particular places on the landscape.
A.
Often the memory is lost and the name is forgotten, but that doesn’t mean it’s gone completely. Watch how names have been resurrected. Carefully ask permission to rename an area. Look at the physical attributes, they often tell you a lot. Remember that the northern Coast Salish language is completely different from the south. We’re not going to be able to reclaim all the names because of the rapid depopulation from disease. But there is a way to respectfully generate names. Sometimes names were given in dowry, and sometimes they have more to do with whether something was a good herring area or spring salmon area or the geographical nature of a place. Almost all birds were named for how they sound. If you understand this, you can find a respectful way forward.
Q.
I understand that you carry your stories. How do I ask permission, who do I ask, to pass along stories that are not my own?
A.
Ask the person who carries the stories. If you are witness to stories, remember them accurately, and always say who gave you the information. Not all stories can be passed on, so get permission. If a story has been published, make sure you cite the author.
Q.
What do you think should be done with belongings found and entrusted to the XLAP group?
A.
It would great if there were the resources to have a centre to display everything on the island. It would be wonderful to have everything put collectively together, and have an interpretive centre to enjoy all of the belongings and sites together one day (except never move or disturb grave sites).